Hillary Clinton’s Dangerous Defense of Afghan Women
by Lucinda Marshall
Last week,
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pledged that the United States will not abandon Afghan women and girls today as Afghan President Hamid Karzai is visiting the United States.
According to the Associated Press, Clinton told three senior women Afghan officials who were traveling with Karzai that “We will not abandon you, we will stand with you always.” Clinton also said it is “essential that women’s rights and women’s opportunities are not sacrificed or trampled on in the reconciliation process.” Her statements indicate that the US will not support reconciliation with Taliban militants unless they “respect women’s rights,” renounce the Taliban, and abide by the country’s laws, reported the Canadian Press.
Forgive my cynicism but we abandoned Afghan women many years ago, and greatly exacerbated their plight when we cynically used them as a justification to destroy their country and our continued military presence is only making things worse. This latest statement from Clinton reads like yet another ploy to use the lives of Afghan women as an excuse-this time for not talking to the Taliban. While I am in no way saying that we should condone the Taliban’s misogyny, our military presence is not the key to addressing that issue. In fact it is likely making matters worse.
Women’s lives have always been part of the battleground over which opposing forces fight. However, as Laura Carlsen points out, it has gotten much worse in recent years:
* At the turn of the 20th century, 5% of war casualties were civilians * In World War I, 15% were civilians * In World War II, the figure leapt to a 65% civilian death toll, as whole cities were bombed * By the mid-nineties, 75% of war deaths were civilians * Today, 90% of the human war toll are civilians-the majority women and children
Forget the complaints of “collateral damage”. As military leaders brag that modern technology has produced the most accurate weapons in history, during war strikes in places like Iraq or Afghanistan, women and children die.
They are not the collateral damage-they are the targets.
As this blog pointed out recently, despite assurances that this is not the case, there is anecdotal evidence that the U.S. military is still using training chants that encourage the killing of innocent women and children.
I went down to the market where all the women shop
I pulled out my machete and I begin to chop
I went down to the park where all the children play
I pulled out my machine gun and I begin to spray.
What was that about not sacrificing or trampling on women’s human rights?
Lucinda Marshall is the Founder and Director of the Feminist Peace Network, http://www.feministpeacenetwork.org. She is the author of the FPN blog as well as Reclaiming Medusa, http://www.lucindamarshall.com.
I am posting this on my blog incase women like Saturnia want to post. I am not White Nationalist so I can’t post on SF, but we had some great talks and this blog will allow us as women of all political views to just talk about issues that are important to us as women.
I welcome the view point of men as well of all political views. I do just ask that a few simple rules be followed by everyone so we can have an important disccusion about this issue but not have it turn into a gender war like what usually happens 99% of the time. I ask that we talk to each other and not at each other and that we treat each other with respect. I will be fair and treat you with respect and I ask the same respect in return. I just want us to reach the place where we can really discuss and debate the issues.
One of the things that really blows my mind about some White Nationalist men, plese notice I did say some, is that many of you support the radical Muslims like the President of Iran who deny women equal rights!!!
I know the enemy of my enemy is my friend concept!!!!
Yet, at the same time many of you brag about the excellent way White men treat White woman. You might bring up the old Pagan traditions of both the Norse or Celtic people. Yet, how can you support radical Muslims and the President of Iran because of aggreeing with them on the issue of Israel and the United States and wanting to destroy them from the face of the earth? Why would you even talk to these guys who are not your friend but are your foe?
The American White Nationalists say they are true American Patriots who are fighting to perserve our heritage and freedom, but yet they talk to radical Muslims like the Preident of Iran and Syria about America and Americans. Yes, you share the same view regarding the Jewish people, Israel, the United States of America (your own nation), but they are not your friend. Yes, while it is true they are your best path to poliltical power how can you sleep at night knowing that what you tell them could be used against your fellow citizens? How can you forget 911 and all the Americans who died that day?
Why don’t White Nationalist women oppose this joining of White Nationalists and radical muslims working together toward turning their common hate for the Jews and the United States into gaining political power?
I think one reason is that they share those views and support their decision. Another is that some WN women live the same life as the Afgan women. I know I did as did any other women who found themselves living in a version of the FLDS. We were treated in much the same way as the Taliban and other radical Muslims treat their women.
Women in many parts of the world and some in the United States are treated the same way as the Afgan women and nothing is done to help American citizens who find themselves living in this hell. So if we allow women and children to be treated and sold as proptery and not as human beings which is happening in AZ where I live with the human trafficing of people; it does not surprise me we ignore the CRIES of all WOMEN AROUND THE WORLD WHO ARE ALSO SUFFERING. That is why REAL IMMIGRATION REFORM IS NEEDED. People are dying here.
People today are really good at pretendting and are not very good with having the courage to stand up and FIGHT for the moral imperatives that we are taught as Catholics, Jews and other Religions such as the Pagan faith. They all teach their followers about the moral imperatives in life. We are all taught the Golden rule of some form. The do unto others as you want done to you rule. Or Love can overcome hate.
Oh another article may be written about the bad conditons that women find themselves living under, but nothing will really be done to HELP them, because to HELP them is to HAVE TO ADMIT that we don’t WANT TO HELP THEM. We would rather turn our heads a way and be like the three monkeys of SEE NO EVIL, HEAR NO EVIL OR SPEAK NO EVIL. We would rather pretend that we in fact or fighting for EQUAL RIGHTS FOR WOMEN when we know that WOMEN all around the world are living in HELL.
I have never met Hilary Clinton and because of personal experience of having lots said and written about me that wasn’t true, I don’t judge anyone. I have an open mind and judge not from what I read or hear but by personal experience of looking in their eyes when I ask the questions myself.
I supported her when she ran for President. As a woman I thought she might be more COMPASSIONATE about how some women in this nation were being treated and denied equal rights because they were women.
So like being the political junkie like I am, I read about her. In some ways I could relate to her though she is more my sister’s age than mine. She came from a Conservative family and at some point in her life started to become Progressive. She loves politics and was a great helpmate to her husband who I believe love each other very much in their own way. They have a beautiful daughter who they both should be proud of who is growing into a strong woman who I believe can be whoever she wants to be in life. I know Conservatives again would call be stupid for even liking her.
I still believe in her heart that Mrs Clinton still cares about women and has not forgotten the fight. She also has to do what is best for this country. She holds a very important job. I believe in her, because I know she is married to a man who was President of the United States and knows the pressures that our government is facing. What better person to go to for advice than your husband who is just as smart as you are.
I know I am very old fashion and on some issues we disagree, but the one thing we have in common is we are women. We both want the best for women. If we truly believe in true choice than shouldn’t we support all women in the choices they make. Harsh judgement should not be found between us as a sisterhood of women. No matter what political view we hold we still or women who are just trying to do the best we can in life. We all love our children and want the best for them. We want our daughters to have a better life than our generation.
I think that women of all political views need to start talking to each other and not at each other. I think if we put our heads together that we could find a solution that helps all women around the world to be treated and valued as human beings who deserve respect, freedom, and valued as helpmates and not slaves.
What I’m curious about is where are the voices of the Afghan women, why are they not speaking out about their treatment? Are we to assume that they can’t? Are we to assume that they don’t like their lifestyle because we don’t, and that we need to rescue them? I honestly don’t think they want to change, or there would be more of them speaking out and trying to escape. I think they’ve accepted that lifestyle as the right way. I want what’s best for women too, but they must speak up and take initiative. If they want to accept an oppressive lifestyle as the right lifestyle, then that’s their perogative. We shouldn’t be in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., period.
Some WNists support radical Muslims, yes. However, to the radical Muslims, we’re all Americans that deserve to die, they’re not going to listen to some WNist say something like, “Hey, we support your fight against the Jews!” I’ve read a few posts basically stating how the women “know their place” and they’re breeding. I’ve even read one post that stated, “Maybe the Taliban’s got something on us,” as far as womens’ place in society goes. Sure, why don’t you go join the Taliban, don’t bring it here.
Human trafficking happens in AZ? Tell me more about it, please.
Yes, human trafficing is happening here and actually is in many parts of the United States. AZ has a large murder and kidnap rate. One of the reasons stated is that the Drug Lords in Mexico who are very powerful are fighting a drug war in Mexico and that war is spilling over into the United States/AZ border.
Not to long ago a sherif deputy in Pima County I believe was shot by illegals who were fighting each other. We have border patrol agents getting shot and killed, private citizens on the border being killed on their land, and human beings who want to escape the violence to a better life are enslaved. Young women are sold as sex slaves, held against their will in brothels and told if they escape their family back home will be killed. Other women are forced to work in terrible conditions in sweat shops.
We have a real problem here and unless we can find a humane way to deal with the violence along our Southern border we will continue to have our crime rate get worst and worst. More people on both sides of the border will be killed.
There are a few Afgan women who do speak out and they are killed for daring to speak out. I posted an interview on Democracy Now about one young women who is speaking out and who has had death threats because she dared to speak out. She is a brave woman. Women are afraid to speak out because of punishment. It is not their free choice to live as they are living at the total mercy of the man. I lived that way when I was with Jeff and his CI/WN church. A woman and girl child is totally at the mercy of the man. A woman is not more than a slave who is under the total control of her husband or father if she is still unmarried. She is not allowed to do anything without his permission.
Unlike how some White Nationalist men like to paint the taliban and other radical muslims that they are willing to work together with, the real life of women and girl children is one of fear. FEAR to speak out because you will be killed as many have been. The fear to escape because of knowing if they catch you that you will be punished. Being brainwashed to believe that as a woman you are not worth anything more than having a roof over your head, clothes on your back and food in your stomach. That if a woman had all three she was living in paradise and shouldn’t want better. From the day she is born a girl is told her duty in life is to submit to the will of her father and then husband. She is his property and must obey or else. They are told to want a better life is SIN and that to leave is SIN. Women are repressed and are not free and treated like queens as much as White Nationalists try to say they are.
In Iran that White Nationalists like to hold up as this wonderful paradise women are not free either and young women who do speak out are punished. The students who are speaking out are being silenced by those who White Nationalist men think are honorable people who will carry out the destruction of Israel and the Jews. Many of them know that they are betraying their own country and don’t care that they are helping the very people who want to destroy their own government. Others of them haven’t connected the dots and are so blinded by their hate of Jews that they don’t see the truth that the enemy of their enemy is not their friend. Maybe White Nationalist men are just as brainwashed as the women?
I did find something about a woman in Saudi Arabia:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/57974.html#more-57974
“The young couple was enjoying an afternoon at the local amusement park when their day was suddenly blighted by the arrival of a uniformed government functionary.
The police officer demanded identification from the couple. This caused the young man to suffer an apparent panic attack. The woman, however, erupted in fury, beating the policeman so severely that he had to be hospitalized.
The woman who beat up the Virtue Cop has become something of a folk heroine.
“To see resistance from a woman means a lot,” comments Saudi women’s rights activist Wajiha Al-Huwaidar. “People are fed up with these religious police, and now they have to pay the price for the humiliation they put people through for years and years. This is just the beginning and there will be more resistance.”
…..”
It looks like they do have womens’ rights activists. I wish them luck. I suspect they will be accused of being Western-influenced and face severe punishment, and those countries will have even more of a reason to hate us.
Why do White Nationalists like to excuse their hate of us by saying it is our fault? Just because women are sick and tired of living a life of HELL and start to speak out and are supported by other women all around the world is not justification for their hate of us and wanting to destroy us and Israel off the face of the earth.
There is no excuse for White Nationalists to use to jusitfy their treatment of women and their hate toward us in the West who would support the women living there in speaking out and even dying for daring to fight for a better life for them and their daughters.
What is the difference between a White Nationalist who refuses to see the truth and makes excuses for radical Muslims and refuses to stand up for the truth because they support their hate of the Jews and wanting to destroy Israel and the Jewish people off the face of the earth and a White Liberal who makes excuses for non whites who commit crimes because of oppression that they one time faced in this country, but do not face anymore? White Nationalists are good at accusing White Liberals for not wanting to see the truth but only making excuses for their behavior, but what about when White Nationalists do the same thing with radical muslims and making excuses for their hate. Both don’t want to face the truth that we are all responsible for our actions. So White Nationalists because they don’t want to face the truth will make excuses why it is ok for women to be denied basic rights just because they happen to be born a girl child. More of the same ole same ole of both sides not willing to face that maybe just maybe they are WRONG!!!
Women speaking out is no reason for THEM to hate us or justify their actions against us. It doesn’t matter how much we women of the world support the women who are living in slavery, nothing will change because the world really doesn’t want to do what is necessary to bring the change that is needed. We will continue to talk like we are there to help women and children, but the truth is that we will continue to see no evil, hear no evil, nor speak no evil.
“Why do White Nationalists like to excuse their hate of us by saying it is our fault?”
Because America, to most WNists, is considered among the most liberal, feminist, degenerate nation. Just look at how some of them even trash-talk American women. But most of all, it’s exactly that, “Enemy of my enemy is my friend” thinking. Some of them even agree with how women are regarded over there, because at least they’re in complete submission to men, are covered head to toe, and are breeding in higher numbers. That’s all that matters.
I refer you to this thread that was up a while back:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t637971/
There were more posts damning a fellow White, than anything. Look at how some of the posts refer to Afghans as “allies,” and see the derogatory posts against the girl (not all of them are). Do I think anyone should be in Afghanistan killing them senselessly? No. Do I think this girl was just doing her job and was good at it? Sure. It would have been better if she were gunning down invaders in her own country.
“Women speaking out is no reason for THEM to hate us or justify their actions against us.”
I agree. But I wouldn’t be surprised if that IS used as another reason to hate us. And, of course, WNists will agree and trash-talk American “feminists.”
Saturnia, you bring up some really good points as always. I think that is why I enjoy our talks so much. We agree on some important issues facing women.
” Because America, to most WNists, is considered among the most liberal, feminist, degenerate nation. Just look at how some of them even trash-talk American women” (Saturnia says)
I agree with you about the trash-talk many of the White Nationalist men make about American women. It is if a woman no matter how old fashion or traditional is called an evil feminazi out to destroy the White man and race, just because we think woman should be treated as human beings and not slaves who are totally at the mercy of their male masters.
I lived that way with Jeff and his CI/White Nationalist church. It was the White Nationalist version of the FLDS or the Taliban treatment of their women. It is not a happy or fulfilling life for a woman, why shouldn’t the next generation of girls have more choices in the White Nationalist world? Yet, to fight for some rights like girls being allowed to receive the best education and go to college so they can develop their minds to some these guys is like being an evil woman who is out to destroy families. Another thing that used to really bother me about White Nationalist men was that some of them would want to deny me a woman to be active in politics just because I was born a girl child. There are White Nationalist men who would want to take away my right to vote as a woman. Women can vote from knowledge just as well as a man can.
So I get back to the question why aren’t more women in White Nationalist speaking up and telling the men they are wrong to join forces with the radical muslims against their own country, the Jews and Israel. Why wouldn’t the women fight for what is best for the future of this country, their children and do the right thing?
I do believe some of the women share and believe in the same vision and goals as the White Nationalist men who support the radical muslims over their own countrymen. There are some smart and dedicated women who could play a role in leadership, though I think more in Europe than here in the states because American women have been told for so long that they shouldn’t vote because after all their duty as women is to marry young and have large families to save the White race. As you point out there are White Nationalist men who treat their women the same way as the taliban and want to bring that here the the States.
Then there are the many women who fell in love with a White Nationalist who fell in love with him. He slowly brought her into White Nationalism much like a frog is slowly cooked as the heat is slowly turned up. They want to please their men and be good wives and mothers. They will submit to their man and trust his judgement. She believes what her man tells her and will just trust that he is doing what he thinks is best. They are happy in their own little world.
At what point will White Nationalist women wake up to the truth that joining and working together with the radical muslims to destroy Israel and the Jews, The United States and Americans, and because they think it is their best route to gain political power once the United States government that we have now failed is not the right path to take? At what point will they start to stand up and start fighting to save this country for their children?
At what point will Progressive woman wake up to the truth that they need to stop judging more old fashion and traditonal women because we have a different view on some of the social issues and realize we are all women. We are all part of the sisterhood of women and we should be talking to each other and not at each other, really listening to each other as women with open minds and hearts, and most important find solutions to the problems we are facing and will be facing down the pike as a nation. We must think about the children who are depending on us to keep them safe from harm.
We need to take an honest look at the women’s movement today and admit our mistakes and move forward to help all women in this country. Many women feel that Progressive women are not compassionate to other women who are more traditional in our beliefs. Some of us are pro life and some of us are pro choice. We should not allow political issues get in the way of the fight that we should be fighting as women and that is the right of all women around the world to be treated as human beings and not slaves. I think we as women of all political views need to show more love and compassion for our fellow sisters who are just trying to do the best they can with the cards life dealt them so far.
Well perhaps we should look to the obvious source of women subjugation RELIGION, you can name the book of choice ans all these ‘holy’ books indoctrinate, prescribe, instruct how, and when women should or should not act. Perhaps before blaming men which is the typical liberal target, you speak of fear indeed the fear of some unseen god that prevents these women from being liberated, allows them to be ‘circumcised’, beaten, abused or wed to old men of various faiths. Its so easy to blame a man rather than question the fundamental reason for the oppression of women…………… gods in all their forms have suppressed women for thousands of years, and until you can break free from that bondage you will never be free. It is all an illusion to exercise control of your thoughts and behaviour, and you still wonder why these women don’t speak out? That is because the punishment is harsh and barbaric just like their religion. Primal fear controlled is stronger than any weapon we possess, makes me wonder who really has the power after all?