US-Backed Palestinian Security Forces ‘A Prescription for Civil War’
by Jon Elmer in Bethlehem
Abu Abdullah has never been charged with a crime, but he has been arrested by Palestinian security forces so many times in the past two years that he has lost count.
![[Allegations of misconduct have been made against Palestinian security services. (GALLO/GETTY)]](http://www.commondreams.org/files/article_images/palestinian_security_0.jpg "palestinian_security.jpg")
Allegations of misconduct have been made against Palestinian security services. (GALLO/GETTY)He has been arrested at work, in the market, on the street, and, more than once, during violent raids by masked men who burst into his home and seized him in front of his family.
Deep in the heart of the Deheishe refugee camp on the outskirts of Bethlehem, Abu Abdullah describes in detail the beatings he has endured in custody, the numerous cold, sleepless nights in cramped and filthy cells, the prolonged periods bound in painful stress positions, and the long hours of aggressive questioning.
“The interrogations always begin the same way,” Abu Abdullah explains. “They demand to know who I voted for in the last election.”
Abu Abdullah is not alone. Since Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad’s caretaker government took power in Ramallah in June 2007, stories like Abu Abdullah’s have become commonplace in the West Bank.
The arrests are part of a wider plan being executed by Palestinian security forces – trained and funded by American and European backers – to crush opposition and consolidate the Fatah-led government’s grip on power in the West Bank.
An international effort
The government of Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, is bolstered by thousands of newly trained police and security forces whose stated aim is to eliminate Islamist groups that may pose a threat to its power – namely Hamas and their supporters.
Under the auspices of Lieutenant-General Keith Dayton, the US security coordinator, these security forces receive hands-on training from Canadian, British and Turkish military personnel at a desert training centre in Jordan.
The programme has been carefully coordinated with Israeli security officials.
Since 2007 the Jordan International Police Training Center has trained and deployed five Palestinian National Security Force battalions in the West Bank.
By the end of Dayton’s appointment in 2011, the $261mn project will see 10 new security battalions, one for each of the nine West Bank governorates and one unit in reserve.
Their aim is clear. Speaking before a House of Representatives subcommittee in 2007, Dayton described the project as “truly important to advance our national interests, deliver security to Palestinians, and preserve and protect the interests of the state of Israel”.
Others are even more explicit about what the force is for. When Nahum Barnea, a senior Israeli defence correspondent, sat in on a top-level coordinating meeting between Palestinian and Israeli commanders in 2008, he says he was stunned by what he heard.
“Hamas is the enemy, and we have decided to wage an all-out war,” Barnea quoted Majid Faraj, then the head of Palestinian military intelligence, as telling the Israeli commanders. “We are taking care of every Hamas institution in accordance with your instructions.”
After the takeover
When he arrived in the last days of 2005, Dayton’s assignment was to create a Palestinian security force ostensibly tasked with confronting the Palestinian resistance. The project began in Gaza.Sean McCormack, a state department spokesman at the time, explained Dayton’s role as “the real down in the weeds, blocking and tackling work of helping to build up the security forces”.
But within weeks of his arrival, things began to fall apart. Hamas’ decisive January 2006 election victory ushered in a crippling international blockade on the Palestinians in Gaza. Soon after, the security forces of Hamas and Fatah began fighting in the streets, culminating in Hamas’ June 2007 takeover of the enclave.
Dayton’s initial aims lay in tatters, and while Fayyad became prime minister in a ‘caretaker’ government in Ramallah, a new security strategy was formulated.
As a grim status-quo established itself in Gaza, Dayton’s new mission became clear. The job of the security coordinator was now “to prevent a Hamas takeover in the West Bank,” according to Michael Eisenstadt, Dayton’s former plans officer.
A coordinated attack on Hamas’ civilian apparatus was launched immediately after the takeover in Gaza in June 2007. Major-General Gadi Shamni, the head of the Israeli army’s central command, led an initiative to target the base of Hamas’ support in the West Bank. The plan, dubbed the Dawa Strategy, involved pin-pointing Hamas’ extensive social welfare apparatus, the lynchpin of their popularity amongst many Palestinians.
Dr Omar Abdel Razeq, a former finance minister in the short-lived Hamas government, explains the effect this had. “When we talk about the infrastructure we are talking about the societies and the cooperatives and the institutions that were to help the poor,” he says. “They finished [off] the infrastructure of Hamas.”
Israeli Brigadier-General Michael Herzog, the chief of staff to Ehud Barak, Israel’s defence minister, summed up the Israeli view of the project. “[Dayton's] doing a great job,” he said. “We’re very happy with what he’s doing.”
Torture allegations
The Dawa Strategy has seen more than 1,000 Palestinians jailed by Palestinian Authority (PA) forces. The arrests – though concentrated on Hamas and its suspected allies – have touched a broad swathe of Palestinian society, and all political factions.
They have targeted social workers, students, teachers, journalists. There have been regular raids on mosques, university campus’ and charities, and repeated allegations of torture carried out by US and European-funded security officers, including several deaths in custody.
In October, Abbas issued a decree against the most violent forms of torture used by his forces and replaced the interior minister, General Abdel Razak al-Yahya, a long-time US and Israeli partner, with Said Abu Ali.
While noting an improvement since the decree, human rights workers say the changes are not enough. “There is still no due process, still no legal justifications for many of the arrests and civilians are still being brought before military courts,” says Salah Moussa, an Independent Commission for Human Rights attorney.
Major-General Adnan Damiri, a spokesperson for the Palestinian security forces, acknowledged wrongdoing but attributed the acts to individuals and not to a policy.
“Sometimes there are officers or soldiers who have made mistakes in this way, with torture,” Damiri said. “But now we are punishing them.”
Damiri cited 42 cases of torture in the past three months that resulted in various forms of reprimand, including loss of rank. Six soldiers were dismissed for their acts.
But on the streets, the mood is darkening as the foreign-backed security services tighten their grip on the West Bank.
Naje Odeh, a leftist community leader in Deheishe who operates a thriving youth centre in the camp, characterised the security apparatus as akin to the US-allied regimes in Jordan and Egypt. “If you speak out, you are arrested,” he explains. “This behaviour will destroy our society.”
Odeh says the security forces carrying out the raids know that what they are doing is wrong. “Why are they masked?” he asks rhetorically. “Because we know these people. We know their families. They are ashamed of what they are doing.”
Some fear that the behaviour of the US and EU-trained security forces will spark potentially deadly confrontation.
“If they attack your mosques, your classrooms, your societies, you can be patient, but for how long?” a senior Islamist leader in the West Bank asks.
Abdel Razeq, the former Hamas finance minister, is more explicit in his predictions.
He says: “If the security forces insist on defending the Israelis, this is a prescription for civil war.”
© 2010 Al-Jazeera-English
“Abdel Razeq, the former Hamas finance minister, is more explicit in his predictions.
He says: “If the security forces insist on defending the Israelis, this is a prescription for civil war.”
At least someone can see through the US/ZOG-Zionist agenda. To Hamas I can only say “Victory will go to the righteous”.
Garfield, you comment doesn’t surprise me. All I can say is that I hope there is a way to find a real and lasting peace for everyone. Hamas has got to stop their acts of violence and Israel and Egypt need to open up the border. White Nationalists seem to forget that in the past when Israel lived up to its side of the bargan that Hamas sent rockets into Israel. Israel rightly feels that Hamas can’t be trusted.
Garfield why is it that White Nationalists don’t ever say the truth that Egypt also has its border closed. You always blame Israel, the United States and Jewish people. Is it because Egypt is a Muslim state and since you agree with their plan that you keep silent? Egypt is just as guilty as Israel for what is happening because they are not allowing the common border to be open so that supplies can be bought.
Chrisy, please name just one incident where the Egyptian government has sent troops and or agents to kill Palestinians to further their cause, tell me why it is that an israeli arab, born in Jerusalem cannot own property in Jerusalem, why can they not have citizenship of Jerusalem?
Israel and Egypt have a non aggression pact since 1979. Since 2007, they are a signatory to the ‘War on Terror’- In March 2007 President Mubarak approved several constitutional amendments to include “an anti-terrorism clause that appears to enshrine sweeping police powers of arrest and surveillance”, suggesting that the Emergency Law is here to stay for the long haul.
Would it surprise you that Egypt receives $ 6 Billion per annum in US aid? Now perhaps you have the answer to the border closures.
So who is to blame? Perhaps we should look to what motivates hamas, there water and electricity supply is cut without reason, food and medical aid is embargoed in israel for no good reason, citizenry are harassed at crossing points daily to get to work, they erect a wall around the west bank over 700 kms long to further isolate the population. Do you still wonder why they fight?
The Iranians are right they need to be eradicated from the face of the earth, they are a scourge to all that is human, they cry holocaust but are doing the very same thing. From tortured to torturer. Iran will have nuclear capability within the year. ROHOWA will follow after from israel and there decimation be a glorious victory. Allaha Akbar!
http://calsjp.org/2008/01/22/news-watch/no-light-no-heat-no-bread-reality-for-the-powerless-in-gaza/
Perhaps hearing the truth from your fellow US brethren may help.
The Iranians are right they need to be eradicated from the face of the earth, they are a scourge to all that is human, they cry holocaust but are doing the very same thing. From tortured to torturer. Iran will have nuclear capability within the year. ROHOWA will follow after from israel and there decimation be a glorious victory. Allaha Akbar! Garfield said.
More of your White Nationalist love!!!!
Most people see through your so called White Nationalist love and find the truth. You White Nationalists can deny the “hate” all day long, but people see and hear your words and know that you White Nationalists support and work with Iran for the destruction of the Jewish race, and America and Western Europe.
You are not an American so I won’t call you a traitor, but to someone like David Duke who is an American citizen I do call a traitor to his country. He says he does because he loves America and is fighting to save her heritage. What a load of crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He too agree with the President of Iran and has talked to him about America. Why would he a so called loyal American be talking to the President of Iran about America and telling him about our weak points? He is helping radical muslims in planning their next terriorst attack on America by telling the enemy our weak points. If there is another attack on America by the radical muslims that you White Nationalists support and Americans are hurt or killed; the blood will be on David Duke’s and all the other American White Nationalists who feel like you do and who are helping and supporting them in their attacks on Israel, the Jewish people, America, and western Europe.
So David Duke can lie and claim he is a true American Patriot but he is really Benedict Arnold. He can deceive himself and the other American White Nationalists, but the truth is he is working and wants to see the government of the United States fall. By talking to the radical muslims who want to destroy us and giving him information about America is EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t care how sweet he appears to be he is a traitor to this nation that he says he loves.
You guys don’t want to see the truth. It is easier to just blame the Jews, Israel and America for all that is going on over there. Your hate blinds you to the truth that both sides are WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But in your hate you only see the radical muslims as RIGHT!!!!!!!! You don’t have an open mind Garfield like all your other White Nationalists friends. You have a close mind and that hate is going to lead to your destruction because once your radical muslims friends don’t need you White Nationalists giving them info that they can use in their war to destroy Israel, the Jews, and America they will kill you. I know you think that White Nationalists will after the Jews and America are destroyed that you will defeat the Muslims, but that is not living in the real world Garfield. You don’t have the numbers of people to defeat them. When they don’t need you White Nationalists anymore than they will turn on you. Do you really believe their promises that they would give your White Nationalists control of Western Europe and America?
I hear from White Nationalists how much the President of Iran values Christians and that he treats Christians good. That is not true. To the radical Muslims like you White Nationalists are helping in their holy war, if one does not convert to Islam they have a duty to kill you. You don’t believe in God so you would killed unless you converted to the radical Muslim faith.
Hamas shoots rockets into Israel and kills people. What country when they have rockets shot to kill people inside that country does nothing? Israel many times has done nothing because they wanted to find a way to live at peace. Yet, time and time again Hamas has said there is no peace to be found because they aim to destroy Israel. Hamas doesn’t want peace with Israel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is cause and effect. Hamas shoots rockets and aims to destroy Israel from the face of the earth so there is no seeking peace with them. Israel shuts down the border, turns off water and does other things. More rockets fly and than Israel goes in again. Remember Garfield what I posted when we were talking about nukes and why the world will not allow Iran to have nuclear weapons. President Kennedy was facing the Cuban Miscle Crisis. His Generals wanted to bomb and use milatary force. President Kennedy was a reasonable man.
He said these words. ” It isn’t the first step that concerns me, but both sides escalating to the forth and fifth step- and we don’t go to the sixth step because there is no one around to do so.”
Think about those words with an open mind. Forget that President Kennedy who you White Nationalists hated said those very wise words that we who live today should think on and let them guide our actions today in 2010.
Israel needs to think on those words too. Both sides have escalated the fighting until we have reached a point where nukes could be used. You White Nationalists support and want Iran to get nukes so they can use nukes on Israel and the United States. Your hate for the Jews and the United States is so deep that you don’t realize that you White Nationalists will have to live in a world where the survivors will wish they had died.
Israel has a claim to that land and has been willing to try and seek a way for all to live together in peace. Yet, when you have Muslims who refuse to accept that Israel has a right to exist than there is no way that peace can happen. Has Israel made mistakes. YES, they have made alot of mistakes.
Do you remember the story the Pipe Piper? White Nationalists remind me of the children in the story who follow the Pipe Piper to their destruction and death. David Duke knows as White Nationalists that in order for you to gain any real political power that you need the Muslims to deal with Israel, the Jews, and America. White Nationalists dream of building their White Homeland out of the ashes and believe that the Muslims will keep their word. The Muslims are using you American White Nationalists who talk to them for information that they can use to attack us with. Yet, because you have no loyality to your own government or nation you don’t care that many of your fellow Americans will suffer and be injured or killed by the radical Muslims that you gave your information to. Your hate is waht drives you to work and support the violence that radical muslims do to Israel, the Jewish people, and America and Western Europe.
Think Garfield, Iran gets the nukes and uses a nuke against Israel and the United States. Don’t you think that we would send nukes to them before those so called nukes from Iran hit? We will have an all out nuclear war and what will be left? Yes, your side destroyed Israel and the United States, but you who survive will wish you had died in the attack. You will not be building any White homeland paradise out of the ashes of a nuclear war. You will be living in the stone age again. America and Israel are not just going to allow the radical Muslims like your good friend in Iran to nuke us.
Your glorious victory is only in your minds. Sure you might get your wish and Israel and the United States is destroyed but what will the world be like after all the nuclear weapons have been used?
I think the world is more dangerous today than it was during the Cuban Miscle Crisis. Back then we had two reasonable men who both knew that if nukes were used that all of mankind would suffer. That there would be no victor and all the children of the world would be effected. Now we have a President of Iran and radical Muslims who are not reasonable but who have allowed their hate to blind them. They only seek one thing to destroy Israel and the United States. They do not care that they themselves and their children will suffer if they continue to take the next steps that lead to an all out nuclear exchange. How does one reason with someone who has so much hate in their heart that they do not think or value their own life?
Yes, the United States has made mistakes. We have made some real lulu’s. We are still making mistakes. I believe that if the American people wake up to the truth in time and are willing to fight the battle that must be fought to bring our government under the control of honest, honorable, and reasonable men and women that we have a chance to save this country from the path we are on that only leads to our destruction. If people don’t wake up and join the fight or make excuses on why they can’t join the fight than we will loose. Like the children who follow the Pipe Piper we will be led to our destruction. We will have allowed ourselves to dance the next steps because our enemy radical muslims took the next step and we have to answer them by ourselves taking the next step until there are no more steps to take. We are at a crossroads. If we do not act soon it will be to late for true American Patriots to bring this government in line.
Please expalin why israel has claim to the land since it was ‘given’ to them post ww2.
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My comment: Garfield I have been sick all night with throwing up and I just came on to listen to the link you posted so I could approve it. I will be glad to give you a longer answer once I am feeling better. The short answer is that read the Bible in the old testament. That land belonged to Israel. Because they disobeyed God they were sent to different countries until the day that God will bring them back to their homeland. Read about Moses leading the Jews out of Egypt back to their own land. Since you don’t believe in God you don’t believe in the Bible or the Torah which is the first five books of the Bible. The land belonged to Israel before it belonged to the Palestines.
Garfield I approved you link. I or other Progressives are not denying that what is happening over there is terrible. President Carter spoke about the situation over there. Progressive sites are telling the world what is happening over there. Unlike you White Nationalists who only take the cause because it suits your purpose to get the Jew. You don’t really care about the whole sitution or what is happening to the people who live in Israel that are suffering because the rockets that Hamas sends over. You don’t care about the children in Israel or the people of Israel who are killed by the hands of your Muslim friends.
In war both sides suffer. In war the ones that usually suffer the worst or women and children, the elderly, and the sick on both sides. You as a White Nationalist would never say what Hamas does is wrong because you share that same hatered toward Israel and the Jews. You seem to share the same hatered toward the United States and the American people. You White Nationalists dream of the day when Iran will develop their nuclear weapons so they can share them with the other radical muslims who will use those weapons on Israel and the United States. Please don’t try and deny that because in one of you comemnts you were happy that the President of Iran was developing nukes to wipe the Jews off the face of the earth. You are not stupid Garfield and know that those weapons would be used against the United States too.
Progressives are more honest and speak out about the suffering on both sides. We know that Israel suffers and even though they have chosen to do things that do not help the situation; we know and believe they do have a right to be able to live in peace and safety without rockets being fired on them and living with the radical muslims working to destroy them off the face of the earth. We will and must speak out for Israel’s right to exist and be able to live in peace in their homeland.
You don’t read the Bible or believe in God, but read the first five books of the Bible which is the Jewish Torah which is their holy book and not the Talmid like White Nationalists like to say is the Jewish Holy book that says they hate White people. Read about Abraham who all three of the religions Jewish, Muslims and Christian hold dear in their faiths. God led Abraham and Sarah to what would become Israel. When the Jews sinned against God He would punish them. When they repented he would bring them back to their homeland. The Jews have a claim to some of that land over there.
Israel has made mistakes like the United States has made mistakes. Yet, we Americans are willing to admit when we are wrong and to try and make sure that all sides are treated fair. You and your White Nationalists and Muslim friends do not seek a true and lasting solution so that all sides can live together in peace. Your only goal is for your friend the President of Iran to develp nukes so he and his radical muslim friends can destroy Israel and the United States off the face of the earth.
Any American White Nationalist like David Duke who talks to the President of Iran and says anything about the weakness of America is a traitor and should be punished for treason and if there is another attack on America’s soil and Americans die or are injured their blood is on his hands. You Garfield are not an American so as much as it pains me to hear you root for the President of Iran to nuke Israel and the United States you are not a traitor because you are South African.
I find that White Nationalists pick and choose the info that they choose. You will use anything to make the Jews in Israel look bad because you hate them and want them destroyed. You have American White Nationalists who have no loyality to their own nation and who would help Iran and the radical muslim terrorists destroy their own country and see their fellow Americans killed and injured by their Muslim friends who they talk to about America. You guys live in a dreamworld for trusting your Muslim friends to help you gain power because once they don’t need to use you anymore for info that helps them in their fight against the United States they will kill you. You guys live in a dreamworld if you think you can trust them. They have no more respect for you because you sold out your own country and if you would sell out the United States than you would sell them out. Traitors are not trusted by anyone.
I have made many mistakes in my life. I have made some real lulu’s. I am not proud of some of them, but through all of them I have learned and have become the strong woman I am today. One thing I have always been is a patriotic American who loves my country. I meant that oath I took in DAR with my hand over my heart and facing the American flag. Those were not just words I repeated but words from my heart. When I find out that Americans are talking to the President of Iran about America a red flag goes off and that is when I will FIGHT you White Nationalists with all I have.
I am not afraid of you. What are you going to do to me that hasn’t already been done to me in my lifetime? There is nothing you can do to me that hasn’t been done and frankly I don’t care if I die. If my fate is to die because I do what I must do to save my nation than I will have died like other Americans who died for love of country and who were defending her from harm. I would rather die a true American Patriot than to live a traitor to my country by joining with the President of Iran and his Muslim friends in helping them in their plan to destroy America and Israel from the face of the earth. I would rather follow the path of my heroes who died fighting evil because they loved this country than to follow you David Duke, who is following the path of Benedict Arnold. You like him will never be happy.
White Nationalists may think you David Duke are a true American hero, but you are nothing but a traitor to the United States of America. White Nationalists believe that lie and someday you David Duke and all your American White Nationalist friends who along with you have more loyalilty to the President of Iran than your own country and government will pay the price for your treason. Is that why you stay in Europe? Because you know that if you did return to the United States that people here would tar and feather you. I know there you are free to work to bring your White Nationalist government into power. Stay in Europe, but know you are no longer a true American Patriot because true American Patriots see through your little game and are FIGHTING you. Isn’t it sad we both come from the Mayflower or so you say. Yet, I the stupid one is more loyal to my country than you are. I would rather be me with the heart of gold and not a great mind. You may have the great mind and no heart David Duke, but you are nothing and someday you will get what is coming to you. So go and spend time with your Muslim friends and talk to them about America like you are speaking for Americans. YOU ARE NOT SPEAKING FOR AMERICA OR AMERICANS David Duke because you are NOT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You may still dream about being President, but as long as I am alive I will fight you and make sure your dream will never become a reality.
Garfield, I have been sick alnight so I am going to end this now. You and your White Nationalists friends have chosen your side and I have chosen my side.
“My comment: Garfield I have been sick all night with throwing up and I just came on to listen to the link you posted so I could approve it. I will be glad to give you a longer answer once I am feeling better. The short answer is that read the Bible in the old testament. That land belonged to Israel. Because they disobeyed God they were sent to different countries until the day that God will bring them back to their homeland. Read about Moses leading the Jews out of Egypt back to their own land. Since you don’t believe in God you don’t believe in the Bible or the Torah which is the first five books of the Bible. The land belonged to Israel before it belonged to the Palestines.”
I can’t believe that is your answer. Who do you think lived there before the jews cam marching over the hill?
So what you’re saying is that the land belongs to the jews because god said so?
“Progressives are more honest and speak out about the suffering on both sides. We know that Israel suffers and even though they have chosen to do things that do not help the situation; we know and believe they do have a right to be able to live in peace and safety without rockets being fired on them and living with the radical muslims working to destroy them off the face of the earth. We will and must speak out for Israel’s right to exist and be able to live in peace in their homeland.”
I would have expected you to side with the jews, Palestine has no right to exist? You thinking is so similar to the ZOG foreign policy its eerie.
“You don’t read the Bible or believe in God, but read the first five books of the Bible which is the Jewish Torah which is their holy book and not the Talmid like White Nationalists like to say is the Jewish Holy book that says they hate White people. Read about Abraham who all three of the religions Jewish, Muslims and Christian hold dear in their faiths. God led Abraham and Sarah to what would become Israel. When the Jews sinned against God He would punish them. When they repented he would bring them back to their homeland. The Jews have a claim to some of that land over there.”
The word ‘talmud’ means instruction or learning it is a record of jewish discussion regarding custom, jewish law, ethics and history.
I not here to give you a history lesson but I suggest you read it before you countersign what they say about your god and beliefs.
Perhaps the jews do have a claim but I find it strange why they refuse to land back land captured post the six day war? Defend the invaders of sovereign soil.
“I am not afraid of you. What are you going to do to me that hasn’t already been done to me in my lifetime? There is nothing you can do to me that hasn’t been done and frankly I don’t care if I die.”
You constantly tell me this, I can only deduce that you live in fear of what I do not know.
“Garfield, I have been sick alnight so I am going to end this now. You and your White Nationalists friends have chosen your side and I have chosen my side.”
Sorry to hear of your plight. Yes we have chosen our sides.
P.S. Hows the dog eating now?
Garfield, this will be my last comment on this topic. We will have to agree to disagree and frankly, I do not have the strength right now to continue going in circles with you. Though when I am feeling stronger I am sure there will be other topics that you and I can discuss.
First I did not say I was afraid of you Garfield. I wasn’t addressing you but your American White Nationalists who do use threats of violence against Antis who fight against them. You are in South Africa Garfield. You are no real threat to me. American White Nationalists that I knew in real life are a real threat to me and hate me for how I am using whatever info I gained against them. It is also a way of building my own self up. You know that talk you tell yourself before going into battle. I will not cower and be afraid. As I said I know that what I must do is the morally right thing to do. I am doing what I must as a true American patriot who loves my country and who when I was in the NSDAR I pledged in our meetings facing the American flag with my hand over my heart that I would defend the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. I meant those words from my heart. You wouldn’t understand because you are not American.
Actually I have more respect for you as an South African than I do American White Nationalists. One, you seem to have the courage to actually discuss your points of view here with me. That alone gives you more courage than most White Nationalists who refuse to join the discussion here. Two, South Africa is not America.
I didn’t say that Palestine didn’t have a right to exist. I said that both Palestine and Israel have a right to exist and must find a way to live in lasting peace side by side. Both sides have done wrong to the other side. No one side is 100% right on this issue and the other 100% wrong on this issue.
Israel in the past has given back land for peace. I do think they want peace. They tried very hard over the years to gain that peace. Hamas who you White Nationalists support has sent sucide bombers that kill inocent people. Than Israel has to close the border to try and keep their people safe. Then more rockets fly and than Israel has to take the next step. How does one make a lasting peace with someone who has stated that Israel has not right to exist and must be destroyed off the face of the earth?
Each side is taking the next step until maybe one day nukes will be exchanged and than the US and Russia get involved and we send our nukes. Iran has their nukes and China has their nukes until we have reached the point where those who live through a global nuclear attack wish they were dead.
I know you White Nationalists hate my heroes and your American White Nationalists were happy they were killed and died. As I was reminded last night in trolling and listening to American White Nationalists on the radio again blame them for the ruin of America. Yet, President Kennedy who planted his seed in this five year old girl was the best President in my life time. He was a man of courage, reason and wit. He didn’t act like a loose canyon like some cowboy but thought about each move that he would make and what the enemy would make in response before acting. He faced the nuclear crisis in his time as President Obama is having to face the nuclear crisis of his time because of Iran developing nuclear weapons. We are not fools Garfield, we know what is going on there. Even you yourself know and cheer with the idea that Iran will have nukes to pass on to Hamas and nuke Israel off the face of the earth as you have stated on this blog.
Unlike President Kennedy, White Nationalists like yourself and David Duke who has a very smart mind and is inspite of what others think is a leader of American White Nationalists and a mentor to young American White Nationalists; you are short sided and only see that your common goal of Israel being destroyed from the face of the earth and do not see the long term effect of that action. You do not see or take into the consideration of the next step that our side will take in response to Iran’s step.
Again I will repeat the words of my hero President Kennedy during the Cuban miscle crisis when we were very close to having a nuclear exchange between Russia and the United States. Our milatary hawks wanted to bomb early the next morning after learning that the miscles were there in Cuba. Yet, my hero a man of reason and courage pulled everyone back and said ” It isn’t the first step that concerns me, but both sides escalating to the fourth and fifth step and we don’t go to the sixth step because there was no one around to do so.” President John F. Kennedy.
Garfield, I think this is at least the third or forth time I have quoted this to try and get you to understand my point of view. Somehow you do not even attempt to understand my view or you are purposely twisting it to come to the conclusion that I do not think Palestine has a right to exist. BOTH SIDES HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST AND LIVE IN PEACE AND SECURITY.
Progressives do speak up about the conditions in Palestine. They also speak up and say that Israel has a right to exist and live in peace and not be nuked off the face of the earth. They too have a right to not have to worry about sucide bombers or rockets being fired into Israel.
Your haterd for the Jew is all you can see and is blinding your side to all reason. You do not see that reasonable people all around the world are not going to sit by and just let your side destroy Israel, the Jewish people, the United States and Americans off the face of the earth by your radical muslim friends who hate us.
Garfield, I have read much of the White Nationalist material that passes for truth on why White Nationalists are jusitifed in their hatred of the Jewish race. It is the Torah that the Jews read in their temple in their services. The torah is the first five books of the Old Testament. The Talimud is not the highest religous book. Have you ever been to temple Garfield? Have you ever been to a Jewish service? I have. I wanted to see for myself because one only learns the truth by going to the inside of something. I spent a month and attended a few services at the Messanic Jewish Temple that was open to Christians to understand the Jewish faith. I spent time with them as people. I went to a few of their services. I went to one of their holy days at the state capitol. It is the torah and not the talimud as you White Nationalists claim. Until you are willing to have the courage to spend a month actually attending their temple to learn about their faith, I don’t want to hear that you know it all there is to know about the Jewish faith.
I have read several books about the tailmud. The tailmud unmasked I got from David Duke’s shop. The protools of zion from Jeff my ex who was CI/White Nationalist. Plus all the other print out, pamplets that Jeff had me read so that I would hate the Jews.
Benji is a very good dog. Yes, he is being spoiled by being cooked ground beef that I put on his kible.
Thank you for your well wishes. As soon as I am feeling better I look forward to future discussion on other topics. I am sure this one will come out again too as more articles are posted on this topic. I don’t think it is going to go away anytime soon. For now, I think it is best to let this one take a break. So as far as I am concerned this thread is locked until I feel strong enough to spend a lot of time on the computer.