I found this article and I am posting the link here. As I want to comment on it.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=35252
The Stormfront Accomplices By: Joe Kaufman
FrontPageMagazine.com | Wednesday, June 17, 2009
Since the June 10th shooting/murder perpetrated by James Von Brunn at Washington, D.C.’s U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, many eyes have been focused on Stormfront, the white supremacist web forum, which has left the group’s leaders concerned. Their concern is understandable, because, while they didn’t load Von Brunn’s gun or pull the trigger for him, they are still in large part to blame for what happened.
I will agree that the message that people post on SF fed into James Von Brunn’s views, but is Stromfront responsible for this man’s violent action? I think the answer is yes and no. Yes, in that I can agree that we who write and speak about our political views need to be careful not to encourage violent acts but if some nut takes our words out of context and twists them around to commit a violent act, I don’t think we should be held accountable for their violent act. I may not be explaining this very well, but if we as a nation truly value free thought and free speech than we must not erase the free thought and free speech that makes for political debate in this nation. I will fight against anything that wants to deny Americans our freedoms that our Founding Fathers gave us.
Is my talking about fighting Mountaintop Removal Mining and how we must stand as Americans to fight this evil different than some other American talking about how Illegal Immigration is hurting our nation like Lou Dobbs and other White Nationalists do? Most responsible people know when we say fight we mean within the political system we have and peaceful protest. To write letters to make our voice heard with those who hold political power in this country. To exercise our right as Americans to have our voices heard on how we feel about the issues. If some nutjob were to take our words out of context or use them to justify let’s say place a bomb at Massey Coal plant or a Immigration Center and people are killed than I don’t feel that I are Lou Dobbs should be held responsible for the violent act of some nutjob.
This James Von Brunn must be held accountable for his own actions. I know that people would like to shut SF down, but if we deny other Americans the right to their free speech because one doesn’t like what they say than who is to say that someday someone might not try and shut down our free speech because we dare to speak up against the powerful coal companies for their practice of mountaintop removal mining? Or crack down on those who speak out and fight for animal rights? If today you shut down the free speech of one American than you are shutting down the future free speech of all Americans.
I think that there is a lot of misinformation in this article and not written by someone who has spent a lot of time with White Nationalists in real life. I do not agree with White Nationalism and I fight their message. At the same time, I believe in free thought and free speech in this country. I don’t think the way to win in this battle for the soul of America is by tearing up the Constitution and getting rid of the Bill of Rights which includes free speech and thought.
I think the best way to defeat their message is through debate of ideas and with the truth. We defeat disinformation and lies with the truth. We allow the American people to hear their message but at the same time have people who can present the truth along side of their message and show how the White Nationalist/Right Wing message is a lie.
Yes, many White Nationalists think of this Von Brunn nut as their hero. Alex Linder of VNN praised his actions even more than Stormfront and yet VNN is not mentioned and only SF. Why is that? SF is light compared to VNN. There was one man named Rounder on VNN who wrote a letter to his editor at his local newspaper in MO praising Von Brunn and telling him that there were others who felt the way Von Brunn feels and were ready to start taking action.
White Nationalism is anti-women as well. Go to VNN sometime and read some of the posts and their views of women. As a woman I worry about the message that women are receiving within White Nationalism.
SF is playing a game of let us try and make our message of White Nationalism a message of just the average joe/jane republican conservative. They are trying to hide the true message of WN behind a mask. SF has been toning down their message so as to draw more people to think that they are not people who hate others, but do what they do for love. Yet, we know that they do what they do because they hate women, Jews, Non Whites, and Liberals.
Your hardcore WN have been leaving SF for years because they felt SF was going soft. Yet, your article doesn’t say anything about how the true danger in Stormfront is that they soft peddle their White Nationalist message and slowly step by step brainwash them to believe the White Nationalist lies about Jews, Blacks, and Liberals.
I just don’t feel one can put the total blame for what happen on SF, but one has to put the blame on where it belongs and that is James Von Brunn himself. He was a White Nationalist way before SF was even an idea in Don Black’s mind. It is my understanding that he was connected to the NA and William Pierce.
Now a valid question might be what role did William Pierce and the NA have on developing James Von Brunn’s White Nationalists thoughts. James Von Brunn was not a product of SF, but was a harden White Nationalist years before SF was even a website for White Nationalists to network with each other. Another factor to remember as long as SF is online Law Enforcement have some idea what the White Nationalist community is up to. If they were to be taking off the internet than they would go underground and it would make them more dangerous. This way we can keep an eye on what they are saying and doing.
I think this article was badly written and not written by someone who has a deep knowledge of White Nationalists and their message. I would encourage people to not believe everything contained in this article.
14/88
I deleted your comment. I thought you were at a point where you could make comments on the articles and things I write without attacking me.
One, I am not Jewish, but Catholic.
two, yes, I copied and pasted posts from SF and the other WN sites because I wanted to deprogram myself and was debating ideas and not people. I needed a safe place where I could sort out ideas. I did that and I haven’t been copying and pasting your posts, but have written my thoughts.
Third, I in no way have ever said that James Von Brunn was connected to SF. I actually defended your guys having free speech and free thought.
Fourth, By fighting for the right of all Americans to be protected by the 1st Ammendment which includes Don Black’s Stormfront than I am ensuring that other Americans such as myself who are speaking out about the evil of Mountaintop Removal Mining are not denied our voice because some large corporation doesn’t like the fact that people are protesting by word and action and shut us down.
I do not agree with your message. I have made that very clear, but this is not the first time I have stood up and defended White Nationalists and their rights to free speech. I also defended Derek Black when he won his election in FL that he should be allowed to take his seat, not because I believe in his message, but I believe in the political system we have as a nation and he won.
I personally don’t want to shut SF down, because of the free speech issue, but also because it gives others a chance to see what is going on in the White Nationalist world.
Last but not least, there are some good decent human beings who are White Nationalists who helped me when I needed help in the world. I still have feelings for them. I do not agree with their political views as they do not agree with mine, but the love of friendship I still have for them. Some of those people who I have feelings for and would be there if they ever needed a helping hand post and I know one that I really respect as a good man is a mod there. I don’t turn off friendship like one turns on and off a light switch.
While you the average poster there doesn’t understand that I was debating ideas only and not attacking SF personally, but just discussing the ideas that I wanted to sort out in my mind on my blog; I believe that those who got to know me know that I would never intentionally hurt anyone and that I was not attacking people, but wanting to discuss their ideas.
14/88 If you can go back to making your comments in an adult manner without attacking me than I will approve them. If you can make your comments without causing drama than I will approve them. I think you have some intelligent things to say and I would like to see one White Nationalist who is able to follow two simple rules of not attacking others and not spaming the board with long posts. I had thought that maybe you could be that White Nationalist who would present your White Nationalist view of the world here and be part of the discussion. We shall see though.
Christine
14/88
I know you will not understand this, but one of the main reasons why your comments were not approve is that you attack the people. You did not list the reasons why this was a badly written article. You just attacked the person writing the article.
I didn’t think it was a good article either and I listed the reasons why I thought it was not a factual article and was very badly written. I actually defended you White Nationalist having freedom of speech and being able to express your views in the public square like the internet.
I listed my reasons one by one. And if you had responded to this article listing the reasons why the statments were untrue and not just attack than I would have approved. We have had this problem in the past. I would love for you as a White Nationalist to make your voice and views known, but you must learn to discuss the issues without personal attack. I know that personal attack is allowed on White Nationalist forums but it is not allowed here. I want us to have a higher level of discussion and debate the ideas alone and not make it personal attacks of people.
It is your choice if you don’t want to comment here anymore. I think you have some interesting things to say, if you can focus on the issues alone and not attack the person.
Christine
To the White Nationalists who are now spaming the board. This is the thanks I get for defending your right to free speech on the internet. You guys really are not very smart. Your posts will not be approved.
If you can’t add anything constructive to the discussion than your comment will not be approved.
14/88
You will never learn will you? No personal attacks means no personal attacks.
You say I don’t have to defend your free speech because as an American it is your right. So you White Nationalists don’t feel you have to keep watch to make sure your rights are not taken away from you? You White Nationalists feel that you can just take your rights and the right of free speech for granted?
We as Americans need to keep watch and make sure that our freedoms are not taken away from us. Over the years our freedoms and rights as Americans have been slowly and slowly taken away from us. Does the American Patriot Act ring a bell on how a government can take away our rights?
I am at the place where I wonder why I even bother to let you White Nationalists post here. It would make my life so much easier if I just said no more. But, I am a glutton for punishment and I believe in trying to give you guys a chance to express yourselves.
I defend your right to free speech as I will continue to fight for the right of every American under the Constitution that they can have their free speech. I know you wouldn’t fight for the free speech of Liberals or those of us who are speaking out about mountaintop removal mining, but the fact is that if you White Nationalists are denied your free speech as Americans than at some future date those of us who dare to speak up against large corportions and their control over many in our government we could be denied our free speech too. I do not want to wake one day and one could be arrested for daring to stand up and speak the truth.
As much as I disagree with your message and goals, I must defend your right to free speech. Yet, that doesn’t mean that I won’t try and make sure that people reject your message of hate. Yes, White Nationalism and the Right Wing speak a message of hate.
I wonder sometimes if there are any true American Patriots left who have the courage to stand up and fight to save this country. Are we so weak as a nation that we refuse to try and save this country that I would hope that as Americans love? It is like people would rather lie to themselves and think we don’t need to educate ourselves or even keep a watch and made our government give an account.
Christine
“We as Americans need to keep watch and make sure that our freedoms are not taken away from us.”
LOL, gp tell that to the palestinians and iraq’s murder with your goverments weapons, soldiers and sanction. Grow up little one, your blog is nothing bit but liberalist drivel and to me a form of comic relief!!
As always a pleasure!
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My comment:
I decided to approve another one of your badly spelled comments. lol. I had thought about correcting it for you, but decided no.
For your information most Americans did not and do not support the WAR. Yes, what is being committed in the name of our government is evil and most of us condemn the use of torture that has been used.
Many Liberals/Progressives voted for President Obama because he promised to bring the troops home, but as many of us are finding out it was just another lie he told to get elected and wasn’t the truth.
Many Liberals/Progressives that you White Nationalists hate so much are starting to speak up and I believe in the end will stand up and do the right thing. Unlike you White Nationalists, we Liberals/Progressives really love America and we hate the direction that his country has been going down and know that if there is any hope for this country that we are going to have to find the courage and strength to fight the evil and the corruption that is controlling our government. We may have to form a new party and I believe that people are fed up with both parties to join a real Progressive party.
If you don’t like my Liberal slant on this blog than you don’t have to read it, do you? I am not holding a gun to your head, so deep down inside you must know that we Liberals have the truth on our side or you wouldn’t keep coming back.
I know you say because it is comic relief, but the truth is that you must know that White Nationalism is one big lie. The far Right has been controlling this country for ages and look at where its leadership has gotten us; it has led us to being in pit of hell. The reality is that both parties are part of the problem and until we the American people form another party and have the courage to do what we know has to be done than this country will continue to be doing terrible things in our name around the world.
As always have a nice day.
Christine
I am not american. You are correct in your assessmant of obama and your goverment, none can be trusted. I honestly wouldn’t bat an earlid if you were nuked, as they say ‘ you probaly asked for it’. you country is indeed corrupt, your moral fibre is equally putrid not to mention your religious intolerance.
Your comic relief blog really is improving, best not to post this one either who knows someone may agree with me.
Allow me to post SF signature for you to see
“We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.”
“To know a person’s religion we need not listen to his profession of faith but must find his brand of intolerance.” — Eric Hoffer
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit
atrocities. Voltaire
* Persons of Jewish descent, homosexuals or bisexuals, criminals, persons with a non-White spouse or sexual partner, or persons with more than an undetectable trace of non-White ancestry are explicitly barred from membership.Nationalist Coalition.
PS. Remember to cut and paste my post for maximum effect, I can’t wait to respond.
As always its a pleasure
WPWW!!
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My Comment:
I did delete some of the attacks directed at me, but I left in your White Power stuff.
Have a nice day!!!!
Christine